Onarcade filing false claims against gubug - Page 13

digitali16 · 06-18-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

What if someone took your computer and then sold it to your neighbor for $50 because the person said he was the owner? And then you went to your neighbors house and said, "Hey that's my computer ... " and your neighbor responded "No ..I bought it from some guy who said it was his comptuer to sell" ... how would you react?

OK what if my neighbor took out the 20 Gig drive I had in that said computer and upgraded it to 100GB. Then what if he upgraded the memory from 256MB to 1GB.what if he changed the cpu also. Then what if he loaded it with his personal software and began running his business off of it for 8 months. Oh and by the way what if when my neighbor got the computer it had no login or admin references to me on the computer and not one single file of mine. At what point does it occur to you that said computer that I owned simply does not exist or is not in the posession of that neighbor. You see if we had not changed all this scripting then this would be a none issue because I would have gladly paid. However since all the changes have been made at what point in your mind is it clear that you are not talking about the same product. Just like in your little example above on the surface it might seem the same but when you look at the complexity of the matter it is not.

In the digital domain things are a LOT more complex. You see if you had a analog tape or something and then said party gave it to your neighbor it is not the same. Likely that tape would have identifiable wear due to oxidation and easy to prove. Now in the digital domain it is harder because you can make an exact 1:1 copy of something. Now this is why the law states their should be some unique data structures or algorithms. PCX & Gif both use run link encoding but it is the unique data structure that defines them.

hawkal · 06-18-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enTraffic

Actually thinking he purchased it from a legitimate souce and actually purchasing it from a legtimate source are two difference things.

What if someone took your computer and then sold it to your neighbor for $50 because the person said he was the owner? And then you went to your neighbors house and said, "Hey that's my computer ... " and your neighbor responded "No ..I bought it from some guy who said it was his comptuer to sell" ... how would you react?

The point was simply that Digitali16 had no reason to be suspicious when he bought the script and all "seemed" legitimate at the time. In the case of someone selling a stolen computer I usually keep reciepts for such items which prove ownership. From the perspective of the neighbour who bought it I would be suspicious if someone was trying to sell it door to door.

Gamehopper · 06-18-2008, 07:56 PM

What if someone sold you a stolen ford, only it didn't say ford on it and they had a title and everything to say it was a Chevrolet. You take it and pimp it out, put some bitchin' rims on it, paint it colorchange teal and purple, replace the engine and transmission, the tires, the window glass, and you have the new glass tinted. You also put in a 2000 dollar stereo system, and then add a 3,000 dollar bass subwoofer in the trunk. redo the interior, and replace most every engine component under the hood.

When the cops come and look at the vin etched onto the frame, you can say its not the same stolen Ford all day long. In court you would lose everything you added to that Ford.

Now on the other hand, if someone sold you a Chevy, and the cops came looking for a stolen Ford, your vin wouldn't match.

evilfurby · 06-18-2008, 08:01 PM

Another amazing thread where I actually agree with hitsfree. Weird, but I guess a broken clock is right twice a day.

I was wondering... if digitali16 and his brother were to take a few days and recode the other alleged 10% of the site that is still onarcade, would the legal process still continue? It would take a lot of work and I wonder if it would be convincing enough to the accuser or the court.

uglygit · 06-18-2008, 08:01 PM

my heads spinning

hitsfree · 06-18-2008, 08:02 PM

Digitali16 wrote - You can't sue someone in the USA on the grounds of variables sharing the same name. - Sure you can.

It helps establish the fact code is a copy and you didn't
create it. It's easy to see so based on other
similarities. Hans and others see them.

Just because you spent time reworking
it and changing parts doesn't make the script yours.
Just because you paid some crook on Ebay
for the original code, doesn't make it
yours either.

It stolen code and Hans is in drivers seat here.

enTraffic · 06-18-2008, 08:03 PM

hawkal I understand the point you were trying to make, however I don't understand how, in your statement, you honestly believe that if someone purchases something from an un-authorized person that things should be perfectly fine.

I am not saying that is what happened in this case, but I'm just going with the statement you made.

Also I was going to say the same thing Solidgamer said and a car is a great example. Someone takes your car from your house, takes it back to their shop and changes the color, puts on a new set of tires and wheels, put a new stereo in it .. hell, like Solidgamer said, changes the little signed that says "FORD" and puts "CHEVY". Put new seats in, etc. You see where I'm going. So you are saying that this car is not yours anymore?

And basically in your response you are saying "Look, if someone steals something and then changes it, its not stolen anymore. Its a new product and whatever it was prior doesn't matter"

You even then went on to state:

Quote:

You see if we had not changed all this scripting then this would be a none issue because I would have gladly paid. However since all the changes have been made at what point in your mind is it clear that you are not talking about the same product.

First I have to point this out .. there is actually something both parties agree upon ... which is Alfred purchased a script from eBay. However Alfred did you ever run the script on your website without changing 100% of the code?

The problem also Hans has in this matter is that he could give you something unique in the data structure, you could deny it and change it so that it really isn't there anymore. I'm not saying this is why you have or will do, but I can see how its very difficult for someone in Hans position to give this information out. I also see how in your case its also difficult to give this information out as you have some customizations that makes your arcade what it is today.

Yes, I write a lot, but it just amazes me what each party in this case says to one another. Hans really never needed to respond to this post as he could've provided all the evidence to Hostgator. The ball was in Alfred's court. And Alfred never needed to post this thread as he could've presented his coding to Hostgator to dis-prove Hans' claim. BUT since they made this case public, neither side has actually helped each other. We as members of TA could fight back and forth about this but in the end it really doesn't matter. Facts are facts. If Alfred gets to keep his website up and running .. great! The last thing you want to see someone do is lose a popular website over something that may not be true. If Hans continues this claim into the legal aspect and/or gets Gubug shut down again, then its great for him that he is confident enough in his claim to continue pursuing it. HOWEVER whatever I, or anyone else says, will not change the eventual outcome of this case.

SO LETS CLOSE THIS THREAD AND GET BACK TO BUSINESS. LET THESE TWO FIGHT IT OUT IN PRIVATE.

digitali16 · 06-18-2008, 08:37 PM

The point you guys are missing has been shared by solidgamer in his example with a VIN number ( that is a Unique legally accepted form of ID ). Every time you download the software I referenced earlier in this thread and install it on your computer it will write a UNIQUE form of ID to your registry + it will use a proprietary encryption for the key to unlock the software ( I am speaking of Swingscope 6 referrenced earlier ). Now even if someone Pirates SS6 then we can ID this in court because we have a proprietary encryption system in place. Even if you got the key with a key generater you would be decrypting the key with OUR PROPIETORY algorithm. There has been ABSOLUTELY nothing Unique ID'd that will hold in court on the part of Hans. Why do I say this because we have changed the INTERNAL FUNCTIONS and that is what is used in court not Built in functions in PHP. Again the point is that there is not a VIN number and believe me if I wanted to in a heartbeat I could prove someone stole any piece of software we have done in the last 5 years. So can Microsoft and so can Sun and many others. Don't bash me because some guy sold me buggy code 8 months ago and I recoded it from scratch except maybe leaving a few variables in place.

There is no clearing hoouse for Variables. You can register a domain but not Variables. The reason why is because if you made variable XYZ and that became your property then NO ONE could ever use that variable again in a single line of code without your permission or license. Does anyone understand what I am trying to share here? honestly I have no Idea why I even care at this point but my site is down ( because now I am on a server that I did not want to put it on because it is crowded ) so I am back in this God for saken thread again.

dWhite · 06-18-2008, 09:08 PM

This thread was interesting at first, but now it's getting lame.

I no longer enjoy this.

Gamehopper · 06-18-2008, 09:10 PM

And now I am going to threadjack here to try to get something more productive going than just bickering. We have about a dozen half decent arcade scripts on the market. Why cant a few of these guys get together and do a well made open source project arcade and then give it away. Sell mods and themes for it. There is a lot of open source projects out there, but no arcades.

If there were any smart coders out there they would jump on this project. This is what we need. Most arcade scripts are all open source anyway, so why not make a big project that people can make mods and themes for? That in turn would eliminate this thread here as an issue.
Anyway thats my two cents.

06-18-2008, 07:56 PM	#123 (permalink)
Gamehopper Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 379	What if someone sold you a stolen ford, only it didn't say ford on it and they had a title and everything to say it was a Chevrolet. You take it and pimp it out, put some bitchin' rims on it, paint it colorchange teal and purple, replace the engine and transmission, the tires, the window glass, and you have the new glass tinted. You also put in a 2000 dollar stereo system, and then add a 3,000 dollar bass subwoofer in the trunk. redo the interior, and replace most every engine component under the hood. When the cops come and look at the vin etched onto the frame, you can say its not the same stolen Ford all day long. In court you would lose everything you added to that Ford. Now on the other hand, if someone sold you a Chevy, and the cops came looking for a stolen Ford, your vin wouldn't match. __________________ Play Online Games Sniper Games and Scary Games Trade Traffic with GameHopper

06-18-2008, 08:01 PM	#125 (permalink)
uglygit Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 783	my heads spinning __________________ arcade games - fun for all the family flash games - more gaming fun than you can handle Fizzy - Earn $25 Dollars for signing up & 0.01 per click Mochi Publisher - Get cash for games already on your site BigFish - Mod already here game script - probably the most advanced script in the world

06-18-2008, 08:02 PM	#126 (permalink)
hitsfree Cranky Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 564	Digitali16 wrote - You can't sue someone in the USA on the grounds of variables sharing the same name. - Sure you can. It helps establish the fact code is a copy and you didn't create it. It's easy to see so based on other similarities. Hans and others see them. Just because you spent time reworking it and changing parts doesn't make the script yours. Just because you paid some crook on Ebay for the original code, doesn't make it yours either. It stolen code and Hans is in drivers seat here. __________________ The old racist Harry Reid said Burris couldn't be selected as Senator a week ago, now he says maybe? Hmm which way is it? 100% accuracy and nothing less!

06-18-2008, 08:37 PM	#128 (permalink)
digitali16 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 519	The point you guys are missing has been shared by solidgamer in his example with a VIN number ( that is a Unique legally accepted form of ID ). Every time you download the software I referenced earlier in this thread and install it on your computer it will write a UNIQUE form of ID to your registry + it will use a proprietary encryption for the key to unlock the software ( I am speaking of Swingscope 6 referrenced earlier ). Now even if someone Pirates SS6 then we can ID this in court because we have a proprietary encryption system in place. Even if you got the key with a key generater you would be decrypting the key with OUR PROPIETORY algorithm. There has been ABSOLUTELY nothing Unique ID'd that will hold in court on the part of Hans. Why do I say this because we have changed the INTERNAL FUNCTIONS and that is what is used in court not Built in functions in PHP. Again the point is that there is not a VIN number and believe me if I wanted to in a heartbeat I could prove someone stole any piece of software we have done in the last 5 years. So can Microsoft and so can Sun and many others. Don't bash me because some guy sold me buggy code 8 months ago and I recoded it from scratch except maybe leaving a few variables in place. There is no clearing hoouse for Variables. You can register a domain but not Variables. The reason why is because if you made variable XYZ and that became your property then NO ONE could ever use that variable again in a single line of code without your permission or license. Does anyone understand what I am trying to share here? honestly I have no Idea why I even care at this point but my site is down ( because now I am on a server that I did not want to put it on because it is crowded ) so I am back in this God for saken thread again. __________________ Fun Online Games \| Sonic and Mario Games \| Trade arcade traffic 1:1 Our New Arcade script is coming to the market soon!

06-18-2008, 09:08 PM	#129 (permalink)
dWhite Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: United States Posts: 916	This thread was interesting at first, but now it's getting lame. I no longer enjoy this. __________________ Webmaster Forum \| Business Blog

06-18-2008, 08:01 PM	#124 (permalink)
evilfurby Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas, US Posts: 421	Another amazing thread where I actually agree with hitsfree. Weird, but I guess a broken clock is right twice a day. I was wondering... if digitali16 and his brother were to take a few days and recode the other alleged 10% of the site that is still onarcade, would the legal process still continue? It would take a lot of work and I wonder if it would be convincing enough to the accuser or the court.

06-18-2008, 09:10 PM	#130 (permalink)
Gamehopper Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 379	And now I am going to threadjack here to try to get something more productive going than just bickering. We have about a dozen half decent arcade scripts on the market. Why cant a few of these guys get together and do a well made open source project arcade and then give it away. Sell mods and themes for it. There is a lot of open source projects out there, but no arcades. If there were any smart coders out there they would jump on this project. This is what we need. Most arcade scripts are all open source anyway, so why not make a big project that people can make mods and themes for? That in turn would eliminate this thread here as an issue. Anyway thats my two cents. __________________ Play Online Games Sniper Games and Scary Games Trade Traffic with GameHopper

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