Why Large Sites Ignore Small Sites...

BootyArcade · 05-06-2008, 02:50 PM

I think there is a very common misconception in the arcade world as to why large traffic sites seem to ignore or not care about small traffic sites. I'd like to help clarify this for you some.

First of all, people running large sites typically manage their site as a business, not a hobby. In order to be successful, you have to pay attention and focus on the people who send you the bulk of your traffic.

If you're familiar with the 80/20 rule, it basically states, as it relates to an arcade site, that 80% of your traffic will come from 20% of your partners. So if you focus on that 20%, you're much more likely to grow a successful site.

A lot of small sites also don't realize that big sites just flat out aren't set up or capable of trading small volume numbers... for example, a lot of sites are going to send a minimum of 500 visitors daily just by adding one game plug for you. So if you're only capable of sending 20-100 visitors daily, you'll find it hard to get a game plug.

They would love to trade with you, but it doesn't make business sense to trade so unevenly.
Secondly, for some reason, many small sites are 'naggy' or 'needy' in all their communications. I actually got an email from someone that said:

'I sent Booty Arcade 16 hits in the last 10 days and I only got two back, are you trying to scam me?'

Do you have any idea how annoying that can become to large sites? 16 hits!? I serve well over 100k daily visitors to my site, I can't be bothered with everyone who thinks their 16 hits are the most important thing in the world.... not because I don't care about that person or their site, but it doesn't make any difference to my site. My time is much more valuable and better served making sure that people sending me 5k daily visits are happy and taken care of. That is where the money is.

Another thing I notice is that I don't see established arcade webmasters really poking around these forums. By established, I mean large traffic, 50k + daily visitors. Consider this, while these forums have some value, if you really want to build a true business and large arcade, why are you giving and taking advice from people who aren't doing that much better than you are? There is so much more to running an arcade site than I've seen posted in this forum, arcadewebmasters or the like. Everything you need to run an arcade site successfully is basically right in front of you, study sites that are successful and copy what they do. If you copy what people do that have 1k daily visitors, then you should expect to never have more than 1k daily visitors.

What BootyArcade and StumpyGames have done is we've developed a system now that can trade with all sites, large and small... and it's working great. Right now, I only trade with around 100 sites actively, but it's automated... so I can afford to take on small partners because they don't require any time except to set them up initially and then it's on auto pilot for me.

I hope that gives you a little insight into our world and helps you understand that we don't just not care about small sites. We all started at day one at some point and we were our own first visitor to our website... while some may lose sight of that, most don't. It's just that most sites aren't capable of trading small volume numbers anymore and the hassle it would require to do so isn't worth it.

LearnNewbie · 05-06-2008, 02:57 PM

Thank You very much, very nice article... I hope all big site webmaster thhink like you

Fahd · 05-06-2008, 03:04 PM

...and it is for the exact same reasons that small arcades may be reluctant to actively send traffic to large arcades. Those 16 hits while measly to you may have been a big chunk of that guys traffic which was probably why he was so worried about you "scamming" him.

I think this thread will serve as a good reason for sites to trade traffic with other sites around the same traffic level.

BootyArcade · 05-06-2008, 03:39 PM

All I am hoping to do is shed light on it from the 'other side of the fence' so to speak.

In general I would agree with you Fahd... with the two exceptions of Booty and Stumpy of course

digitali16 · 05-07-2008, 01:13 AM

I know a guy who runs a large wrestling site with a big board. I used to have a kind of large mailing list about trading and it came a point where I spent just to much time reading and so did my friend. I have no Idea how or why but lately I am coming here to much and reading all this stuff from Booty and you guys. Ken I will be honest with you and I was not a fan at all but you know what. I have so much respect for you and what you are doing now.

Guys lets just say big sites are all dirty cheating thieves or whatever. Why in blue blazes is Ken still here and posting and offering perspective then? All anyone needs to succeed in anything is the proper perspective. There are 2 sides to every coin and I get some of what booty is saying and I am not ashamed to say that I am in arcades to have fun but to make some money as well. Infact I have found in my life I have the most fun making money. I knew I could not send enought traffic to bootyarcade to matter in the big picture ( I still cant ) but no matter because I have never given up on anything in my life and when I see one guy do something it only makes me think about how I can do it better. So the guy with 16 hits even if it was 16 out of his 80 uv that day would have been using his time better to figure out how to get his 80 to 160. I want to also say that he would have been better sniffing around your post Fahd and trying to figure out how to get more revenue from his 80 visitors. You guys are both pieces of the puzzle and I am glad to read both your stuff and RickyG's funny commentary LOL.

PS: bootyarcade OK I tried dude I just can't do a short post LOL

hawkal · 05-07-2008, 06:03 AM

Regardless of the new system that booty arcade uses I still think it is better to trade traffic with sites in the same fish tank as you. Then that way as your site grows you can start trading with bigger fish. I never understood new arcades trying to trade traffic with the big sites, it's like an ant in long grass trying to get your attention it just won't be able to.. weird analogy but true.

Booty have you taken off all banner exchange button? Do you find it better to just trade traffic directly? It's just that I am thinking about implementing a similar system for my arcade but I was only going to use it with 1 or 2 100x100 buttons and leave the rest as banner exhanges.

Also can I ask how getting rid of your user system affected bootyarcades traffic?

amadman · 05-07-2008, 08:58 AM

Yeah I am new to this and don't have any traffic myself.

But I agree with those that say its better to trade with sites closer to your size.

If you can not get on the front page then you are pretty much just feeding their other trades.

BootyArcade · 05-07-2008, 09:28 AM

Everyone is free to have their own opinions

I didn't see any negative impact on taking out my user system. I don't see any purpose for it on the typical arcade.

And your analogy isn't true in my case - I'm here, making myself available, so that small ants in tall grass, can get noticed. Anyone who IM's me on AIM or sends me an email I respond to.

You're here asking questions and I'm answering them... wouldn't you qualify as one of those 'small ants'?

peter_anderson · 05-07-2008, 11:34 AM

I get 1k UV's, but sent a lot to other arcades, but little to BootyArcade, in the past few months. Weird

mariogames1 · 05-07-2008, 12:45 PM

BootyArcade and StumpyGames is ok.

05-06-2008, 02:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
BootyArcade Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 204	Why Large Sites Ignore Small Sites... I think there is a very common misconception in the arcade world as to why large traffic sites seem to ignore or not care about small traffic sites. I'd like to help clarify this for you some. First of all, people running large sites typically manage their site as a business, not a hobby. In order to be successful, you have to pay attention and focus on the people who send you the bulk of your traffic. If you're familiar with the 80/20 rule, it basically states, as it relates to an arcade site, that 80% of your traffic will come from 20% of your partners. So if you focus on that 20%, you're much more likely to grow a successful site. A lot of small sites also don't realize that big sites just flat out aren't set up or capable of trading small volume numbers... for example, a lot of sites are going to send a minimum of 500 visitors daily just by adding one game plug for you. So if you're only capable of sending 20-100 visitors daily, you'll find it hard to get a game plug. They would love to trade with you, but it doesn't make business sense to trade so unevenly. Secondly, for some reason, many small sites are 'naggy' or 'needy' in all their communications. I actually got an email from someone that said: 'I sent Booty Arcade 16 hits in the last 10 days and I only got two back, are you trying to scam me?' Do you have any idea how annoying that can become to large sites? 16 hits!? I serve well over 100k daily visitors to my site, I can't be bothered with everyone who thinks their 16 hits are the most important thing in the world.... not because I don't care about that person or their site, but it doesn't make any difference to my site. My time is much more valuable and better served making sure that people sending me 5k daily visits are happy and taken care of. That is where the money is. Another thing I notice is that I don't see established arcade webmasters really poking around these forums. By established, I mean large traffic, 50k + daily visitors. Consider this, while these forums have some value, if you really want to build a true business and large arcade, why are you giving and taking advice from people who aren't doing that much better than you are? There is so much more to running an arcade site than I've seen posted in this forum, arcadewebmasters or the like. Everything you need to run an arcade site successfully is basically right in front of you, study sites that are successful and copy what they do. If you copy what people do that have 1k daily visitors, then you should expect to never have more than 1k daily visitors. What BootyArcade and StumpyGames have done is we've developed a system now that can trade with all sites, large and small... and it's working great. Right now, I only trade with around 100 sites actively, but it's automated... so I can afford to take on small partners because they don't require any time except to set them up initially and then it's on auto pilot for me. I hope that gives you a little insight into our world and helps you understand that we don't just not care about small sites. We all started at day one at some point and we were our own first visitor to our website... while some may lose sight of that, most don't. It's just that most sites aren't capable of trading small volume numbers anymore and the hassle it would require to do so isn't worth it.

05-06-2008, 03:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
Fahd Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,036	...and it is for the exact same reasons that small arcades may be reluctant to actively send traffic to large arcades. Those 16 hits while measly to you may have been a big chunk of that guys traffic which was probably why he was so worried about you "scamming" him. I think this thread will serve as a good reason for sites to trade traffic with other sites around the same traffic level. __________________ Arcade Partner Program \| Arcade Affiliate Program \| Free Website Monitoring OhFreeGames.com \| Exchange Links \| New Games Free Downloads

05-07-2008, 01:13 AM	#5 (permalink)
digitali16 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 365	I know a guy who runs a large wrestling site with a big board. I used to have a kind of large mailing list about trading and it came a point where I spent just to much time reading and so did my friend. I have no Idea how or why but lately I am coming here to much and reading all this stuff from Booty and you guys. Ken I will be honest with you and I was not a fan at all but you know what. I have so much respect for you and what you are doing now. Guys lets just say big sites are all dirty cheating thieves or whatever. Why in blue blazes is Ken still here and posting and offering perspective then? All anyone needs to succeed in anything is the proper perspective. There are 2 sides to every coin and I get some of what booty is saying and I am not ashamed to say that I am in arcades to have fun but to make some money as well. Infact I have found in my life I have the most fun making money. I knew I could not send enought traffic to bootyarcade to matter in the big picture ( I still cant ) but no matter because I have never given up on anything in my life and when I see one guy do something it only makes me think about how I can do it better. So the guy with 16 hits even if it was 16 out of his 80 uv that day would have been using his time better to figure out how to get his 80 to 160. I want to also say that he would have been better sniffing around your post Fahd and trying to figure out how to get more revenue from his 80 visitors. You guys are both pieces of the puzzle and I am glad to read both your stuff and RickyG's funny commentary LOL. PS: bootyarcade OK I tried dude I just can't do a short post LOL __________________ Fun Online Games \| Sonic and Mario Games \| Trade arcade traffic 1:1 Our New Arcade script is coming to the market soon!

05-07-2008, 06:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
hawkal Preferred Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 163	Regardless of the new system that booty arcade uses I still think it is better to trade traffic with sites in the same fish tank as you. Then that way as your site grows you can start trading with bigger fish. I never understood new arcades trying to trade traffic with the big sites, it's like an ant in long grass trying to get your attention it just won't be able to.. weird analogy but true. Booty have you taken off all banner exchange button? Do you find it better to just trade traffic directly? It's just that I am thinking about implementing a similar system for my arcade but I was only going to use it with 1 or 2 100x100 buttons and leave the rest as banner exhanges. Also can I ask how getting rid of your user system affected bootyarcades traffic? __________________ www.ownage.us www.Allarcade.us

05-07-2008, 08:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
amadman Full Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 96	Yeah I am new to this and don't have any traffic myself. But I agree with those that say its better to trade with sites closer to your size. If you can not get on the front page then you are pretty much just feeding their other trades. __________________ http://www.the-games-spot.com \| \| Join the Arcade Webring

05-06-2008, 02:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
LearnNewbie Preferred Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 120	Thank You very much, very nice article... I hope all big site webmaster thhink like you

05-06-2008, 03:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
BootyArcade Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 204	All I am hoping to do is shed light on it from the 'other side of the fence' so to speak. In general I would agree with you Fahd... with the two exceptions of Booty and Stumpy of course

05-07-2008, 09:28 AM	#8 (permalink)
BootyArcade Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 204	Everyone is free to have their own opinions I didn't see any negative impact on taking out my user system. I don't see any purpose for it on the typical arcade. And your analogy isn't true in my case - I'm here, making myself available, so that small ants in tall grass, can get noticed. Anyone who IM's me on AIM or sends me an email I respond to. You're here asking questions and I'm answering them... wouldn't you qualify as one of those 'small ants'?

05-07-2008, 11:34 AM	#9 (permalink)
peter_anderson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bannedville, Banned County. Posts: 1,511	I get 1k UV's, but sent a lot to other arcades, but little to BootyArcade, in the past few months. Weird __________________ HostVoxeo.com - Affordable Web Hosting, Domain Registration and Design (temporary design)

05-07-2008, 12:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
mariogames1 Full Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 70	BootyArcade and StumpyGames is ok. __________________ Free Games Play Games Girls Games

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